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Daphné Vanessa

Shamil Rodriguez



Stay Up to Date With The Latest and Not-So-Greatest News About Student Loans and More.

About This Episode

Happy Latinx Heritage Month! Daphné Vanessa (@daphnevanessa) and Shamil Rodriguez (@shamilrodriguez) go over some of the latest higher education and student loans, but that’s not all. 

This episode also shares plays clips from previous episodes that cover the student loan and higher education perspective of Latinx students and student loan borrowers.



  • The largest EdTech merger in history between Blackboard and Anthology;
  • Beyoncé, Jay-Z and Tiffany’s teaming up to donate $2M towards HBCU scholarships;
  • Income Share Agreements officially becoming debt; and
  • much, much more…

Enjoying the show? Leave us a rating and review. Every comment helps! Drop in your IG handle so we can thank you personally!


Resources from this Episode:


The Student Loan Podcast Intro (00:00): Welcome to the student loan podcast.

Shamil Rodriguez (00:03): Here, you'll find practical advice on tackling student loan debt, paying down your higher education expenses,

Daphné Vanessa (00:10): Inspiring stories about paying off student loans, where your hosts Daphne Vanessa

Shamil Rodriguez (00:16): Rodriguez.

Shamil Rodriguez (00:19): Before we begin, we have a message from a very special VIP

The Student Loan Podcast VIP (00:24): Please rate, review and subscribe to this podcast.

Shamil Rodriguez (00:29): This is not professional advice, and we speak from our own personal views and opinions.

Daphné Vanessa (00:35): The student loan podcast is brought to you by start new, where you can serve your community and get rewarded with tuition and student loan payments to check out if start new is on your campus. Visit start new.com. Hello, everyone, and happy Latin X heritage month. Welcome to the student loan podcast, episode 46, beautiful people where we will be highlighting the education finance industry, but this time as it relates to our dear and fellow Latin X communities, and I'm hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Should I say Latinex instead of Latin X? What do you think Schmo?

Shamil Rodriguez (01:20): It's up to you. It's an English term. So I think you probably wouldn't want to use the English accent. So Latin X is, I guess how I've heard it here in America.

Daphné Vanessa (01:29): Okay. Latin. Next it will be before we dive in, we have some start news and for the listeners who have been with us from the beginning, don't worry. I will not go into that joyous tune that we used to do,

Shamil Rodriguez (01:48): Or should I? No.

Daphné Vanessa (01:51): Okay. So we won't. So let's get started with some start news. You guys ready?

Shamil Rodriguez (01:59): Let's do it.

Daphné Vanessa (02:01): Awesome. First up the largest ed tech merger ever has happened. And do you guys know who that is while Blackboard merged with anthology and it's created the largest ed tech company in our entire industry and likely in the world, this was just announced a few days ago. And what do you think Chanel? It sounds like the ed tech industry is getting a bit monopoly ish.

Shamil Rodriguez (02:30): Oh, that's a good question. I think that it's, it's big news, right? Because Blackboard has been around for so long. But I still have hope that startups can still get in the mix, but I'm curious that they are having success and doing so. But this is, I mean, this is definitely a big merger. I just am curious to see how this is going to end up working out in the term because there are some options out there, right?

Daphné Vanessa (03:02): Exactly. We still have Moodle. So Moodle is still a competitor. Very much a different methodology though. Right? I would say that Moodle is definitely more focused on open source affordability, giving as many institutions as possible access. Also their demographic is a bit wider. So Moodle is focused on anywhere from the primary secondary school phase to the higher education phase. They're in all of those little groups and anthology has historically been very higher education focused and of course, Blackboard as well. So just different markets. Blackboard is also very proprietary, as we all know. Here's the thought? Does anybody know how much it costs to use Blackboard?

Shamil Rodriguez (03:54): No, I think that's a great question. Once the answer Daphne,

Daphné Vanessa (03:59): They don't have it publicly available, so you need to speak to a university comptroller likely to find out what that answer is for their specific school. But Moodle offers a lot of its pricing options. And it's not super perfectly clear either, but you are able to get sort of an idea with Moodle, which is very different from Blackboard. So there are options out there, but it does seem like they cater to different markets.

Shamil Rodriguez (04:31): Hmm. Interesting. Now I think it's so interesting, especially because you know, those costs end up finding their way in the calculations for tuition. So a good, I think good, good news to share and good, good news to stay up on, especially because everybody uses it or interacts with Blackboard or some sort of Blackboard type program like Moodle if they, if their school or is using it,

Daphné Vanessa (04:58): That's right. Well onto more positive news. The, this queen bee, the queen bee. There is no other queen B Beyonce. Yes. You guys guessed it perfectly.

Shamil Rodriguez (05:14): How does Beyonce continue to make it on the snow and podcasts?

Daphné Vanessa (05:19): I don't know. Somebody must be a fan. It's not me

Shamil Rodriguez (05:24): Obviously, but what's the big

Daphné Vanessa (05:25): News there. Maybe it is me anyways. Beyonce and Jay Z have teamed up with Tiffany's. Yes, that's right. The lovely bluish kind of blue, I think P Perry Winkle. If people want to call it a different color, but blue box Tiffany's has teamed up with Beyonce and Jay Z to donate $2 million in scholarship money to private state schools. And that's so exciting. Do you want to know who's on that list of schools? I think

Shamil Rodriguez (05:58): I would want to know, at least, especially if I'm in school.

Daphné Vanessa (06:00): Yeah. So ladies and gentlemen, drum roll, please in your minds. Okay. So Lincoln university in Pennsylvania is the first Norfolk state university in Virginia Bennett college in North Carolina, the university of Arkansas at pine bluff and central state university in Ohio. These smaller schools will be on the list of receiving end for the $2 million of scholarship funds. Thank you, Beyonce. And Jay-Z for helping reduce the student loan crisis.

Shamil Rodriguez (06:43): Yeah. I love it. I love it when people actually are giving back. Right. cause if I remember Sergeant correct Jay Z and Beyonce are billionaires, right? So teaming up with, Tiffany's doing $2 million when they don't have to give a dime back, no matter how much they make is always encouraging. And at least they are helping others pursue their goals and achieve the degrees that they want to achieve. And I think it's fantastic because now they're helping offset, you know, payments that someone would have to make therefore ensuring that that person can be productive for their family sooner, rather than have to pay back a student loan servicers, you know, for several years. So kudos to them for sure. Seriously.

Daphné Vanessa (07:33): Absolutely. And just helping one student, it can be, life-changing think of how many students and graduates they've helped by giving all of the scholarship money. You know, it's such a beautiful thing, like you said, when people decide to give back and we are grateful that Beyonce and Jay Z and Tiffany's, let's not forget Tiffany's subtracted from the $1.7 trillion 2 billion. Let's take it guys.

Shamil Rodriguez (08:06): But no, I think it's just to kind of, before we wrap up on this specific start news update, I think it's fantastic that they're doing it for students in the arts and creative fields, right? Because oftentimes students that are high school students that want to go into the arts or creative fields are typically, at least from my experience, you know, within my bubble have been discouraged from doing so. So, you know, high school is I, Hey, I want to become an artist or Hey, I want to become a penis or Hey, I want to become a musician. And oftentimes the families that I've interacted with will poopoo on that idea and be like, so you just want to be broke for the rest of your life. And I think that this here is a great way for someone to avoid that debt, especially in a field that could take a little longer to realize income that could be sustainable if you're trying to become the next Beyonce or JZ.

Daphné Vanessa (09:02): So true, so true. It can take much longer time and people, you know, forget about the fact that it took a lot of these artists years, almost a decade before being discovered. So I think that's a great point that the arts are a forgotten community in the space of education finance. So great.

Shamil Rodriguez (09:29): Absolutely. Of course, of course. And remember everyone, we will be putting the links to these start news updates in the show notes so that you can take a look at these articles yourself.

Daphné Vanessa (09:40): Yes. And finally, this is a big piece of news in the ed FinTech space. That's education financing technology for those who are unaware, but income,

Shamil Rodriguez (09:57): A lot of people that might be unaware of that.

Daphné Vanessa (10:00): So many acronyms I can understand. Well, income share agreements also called ISA is, have been used historically by different institutions seeking to create alternative ways for people to go to school. And what is an ISA? Well, an ISA is a contract where student receives money for school, from a provider. And in return, the student agrees to pay a percentage of their income after they graduate. And there have been people who have loved this idea, huge supporters, including some universities, and they've been proponents, you know, done this at their schools. There have been other people who thought that ISA is, were a form of indentured servitude and they really fought against the idea during this debate. There's a little group called the CFPB and they're the consumer financial protection bureau. And they're looking at well, what sort of products are out there that we need to monitor to make sure that consumers aren't taken advantage of?

Daphné Vanessa (11:15): And one of the areas that they do that in is where something is considered a debt. Well, the ISA community, specifically the providers argued for a long time that they were not considered debt. However, a few days ago, just last week, the CFPB decided that ISA is our debt. And so what does that mean for you if you're a university? Well, maybe think about if you're offering these ISA and what the ramp up towards being compliant with consumer law is going to mean for you. If you are a student, you can look at the CFPB website now as a resource for how you should be treated over the course of your ISA agreement smell. Do you have anything to add?

Shamil Rodriguez (12:10): No. I think this is a really good summary and something that a lot we've covered before on the podcast. And you know, we'll continue to bring up bring updates to this topic as we, as we receive them and as we find them, but I think it is something that you should still explore if it works for you. Right. But now I think what Daphne did really well, there is high that you should still know what your rights are as a lender, especially if it's a be considered ISA income share agreements are now debt. So just make sure that you're, you know, you're falling under what the CFPB on their website says you should be receiving in terms of your rights as a, as a borrower and make sure that the university that you're going to or that you're paying for through this, through this program is aware so that everyone is on the up and up that's. I mean, that would be my, my, my input for sure.

Daphné Vanessa (13:02): Nice. Well, thank you for your feedback.

Shamil Rodriguez (13:07): Thank you for listening.

Daphné Vanessa (13:10): Okay. Well, we will move on into the main content ladies and gentlemen. So we, like we said, we are celebrating Latin X heritage month, and I think to get started Shamil, let's talk about some of the awesome events that you used to do for when it was called Hispanic heritage month,

Shamil Rodriguez (13:34): Which ones? I mean, we have the YouTube videos. I'm

Daphné Vanessa (13:38): Definitely thinking

Shamil Rodriguez (13:39): About man. Those are some, maybe we should bring that back. We used to make, I used to make YouTube videos on my personal channel. Just trying to educate people, bring a fun fact about Hispanic heritage, Latino heritage, Latin X heritage you know, as, as that, our progresses, but just really to the intent was to just bring people closer to the culture and the history that, that is so rich that a lot of people don't know about. Right. And there are a lot of other countries that have been impacted by our neighbors to the south, as people say here in America, right? It's like, it's just a, such an important part of American history. And a lot of people don't know about it's an important about important part of Caribbean and Latin American history and European history as well, right? In terms of colonizers, no longer being colonizers. Right? So all of that has occurred and should be recognized and remembered. And so I think that this month should be or this next 30 day period, cause it does crossover two months should be remembered. And the history should be celebrated for whichever you're coming

Daphné Vanessa (14:51): From. Love it. And fun fact, I'm going to do a what's that thing called again, that we do at the end of the episodes, the rapid round. Let's do that now.

Shamil Rodriguez (15:03): Okay.

Daphné Vanessa (15:08): Rapid round first question. How many, how many countries are there in Latin America?

Shamil Rodriguez (15:15): 21.

Daphné Vanessa (15:17): Okay. What is the largest country in Latin America?

Shamil Rodriguez (15:22): If you want to count Brazil, some people do. So you would say Brazil,

Daphné Vanessa (15:27): What do you mean if you want to count Brazil who doesn't count Brazil?

Shamil Rodriguez (15:31): Well, if you're looking at the origin of, you know, for them, they were colonized by Portugal. So they speak Portuguese there, you know, cause then you go into the debate of like, do you include every other country that's just within the Caribbean and Latin America as well. So Brazil.

Daphné Vanessa (15:51): So I'm going to take this all the way back then. Historical term for Latino was supposed to be English speaking. Cause you know that it wasn't just Spanish.

Shamil Rodriguez (16:03): I did not know that. So you taught me there, you taught me something there for sure.

Daphné Vanessa (16:06): Look up the source that Dr. Levin has sent, but shout out to Dr. Lopez, but I really clearly remember this in his class. So I'm going to look this up in my old papers, find the citation, but I'm pretty sure that originally it was non English speaking. And then because of the large number of what eventually became countries that Spain colonized, the focus was Spanish speaking countries.

Shamil Rodriguez (16:40): Okay. That's enough. I will we'll, we'll put that in the show notes and I'm sure I'm going to get some comments too on the numbers because there are some countries that I'm including, as some people don't like to include either so well, we'll, we'll clear that up in any comments or DMS that we might receive or in the show notes, but you know, let's go forward comments,

Daphné Vanessa (17:02): Please comment at us. All of it. Well, that's it for our rapid round in the middle of a random episode, let's get on to the main content. So we've highlighted some awesome Latina and Latino people on our podcast. So I guess next people are going to be modern and I'd love to highlight some of those. And then some of our experts that have come on, just talking about the narratives of borrowers of color. So to give you high level, we're going to first speak about episode 29 with Amanda Martinez, where we discussed Latinos in higher education. And then during episode 31, we spoke with Jeannette Martinez about solutions for student loans for the Latin X perspective. And then in episode 21, with Dr. Catherine wheedle, we spoke about changing the narrative for borrowers of color, including Latin X borrowers. So with that, Shamil, let's start off with Amanda's episode. Okay. Let's do it.

Speaker 5 (18:17): Yes. Okay. It's my favorite story to tell because it's one of, I would say it showcases our resilience and not a lot of people start with resiliency. They like to go to, okay, here are all the gaps, but I'm going to tell you a story about how Latinos have really made so many strides, not just in the K through 12 space, which, which makes sense. There's been a lot of work at the federal level to change the K through 12 systems that it helps low-income students make their way to college and those policies have worked. And so in the past decade just looking at, from 2000 to then to now, like the recent data of 2018, you've seen Latinos have been rising in enrollment rates, more so than any other racial or ethnic group, even in 2008 during the recession, we were the only group that actually enrolled, continue to enroll in both undergraduate and graduate school, despite, you know, the, the fears of economic downturns.

Speaker 5 (19:32): So in, in 2000, sorry, I was going to give you a kind of an increase in 2000. I think we made up about 14% of undergraduate students across the nation. But now in 2019, we make up about 21% of undergraduates. So that's more than a 10% and more than a 10 point jump or one in five college students, however, unfortunately due to COVID all of those gains for the past decade and decades before then, and going through the recession now, we're seeing drops in enrollment and that's really due to the staggering effect of COVID both the health impact and the economic impact. And we're continuing to see it. So for instance, and which is something we're really concerned about. So just recently spring enrollment, recent numbers, we're still seeing about a fi of 8%, 8% drop in enrollment for actually, I might have that number wrong, but it hovers around six to 8% drop in enrollment, which is completely counter to what would, what was happening before the pandemic.

Speaker 5 (20:59): Latinos were actually always making gains in enrollment, but that's not just the whole picture, right? Because enrollment is just one thing while we can apply to enrollment and that more Latinos are matriculating. And seeing clearly, clearly the value Latinos and their families value higher education, which is why so many are attending. What we're seeing is that once they get onto campus because 70% or a majority are first-generation college goers. And for those who might not know what first-generation is how we define it at many of those is when both of your parents didn't attend or complete a four-year degree. So 70% is a big chunk and that in itself is a unique experience. And when you are entering this new system that you and your family has never navigated before, that might cause some barriers to start coming up. And we do see that from our research, from our work that Latinos unfortunately have the widest college completion gap compared to all other races and ethnicities.

Speaker 5 (22:07): So, and that's across, that's the cross different types of institutions. They have different gaps across different types of institutions for completion. So that's really concerning because when you don't complete your degree, you're not guaranteed the wage premium that you were intending to, to attain when you first entered. And then worse is when you have, when you enter a school with some debt and then you don't complete your program, you're still saddled with that debt as a reminder. Oh, remember when you went to school and you didn't complete. Yeah. You still have to pay that debt back, unfortunately. And what we know about Latinos in the workforce is that we're still, you know, I think it will still make, have lower median incomes than their white counterparts and still face workforce discrimination in the workforce. So even if they do complete a degree, having debt is going to always be a difficulty.

Speaker 5 (23:12): And when they enter repayment, there's going to be negative, really bad outcomes. Or what we are seeing is out negative outcomes, where we do see that Latinos have higher delinquency and default rates. But again, I'd like to point out the, at the completion gap and the negative outcomes in student loans and in repaying, their student loans, it really isn't at the individual's fault. It's really, you know, institutions aren't prepared really to provide the necessary, you know, we've seen in the past decade, just as Latinos were enrolling that overlaying over that same decade, that's the same time policy makers at a state level and a federal level decided we're not going to no longer invest in higher education. We're going to decrease Pell grant money. We're going to decrease state investments in our public higher education. And students were going to institutions. Weren't really realizing that their, their demographics were changing out there, that their campuses and really putting it on students and their families to fill the gap.

Speaker 5 (24:22): And so the federal government decided at that same time as Latinos were enrolling, oh, we're going to provide federal loans instead of providing investments and, you know, subsidizing tuition and non tuition costs. So what you see is really, as students are coming in with hopes and dreams, really the federal government and the state government changed their mind about how they want it to finance the system and students had to, and also Latino students are coming in to institutions that really didn't understand the needs or as a first-generation student, how to navigate or help support them in completing their degree, not just enrolling them, but completing. And so that's kind of the story. It's an unfortunate one, but we do see successes where Latinos, despite the change to a debt finance system, despite institutions not really providing any type of support, any type of guidance, any type of navigation or guide to complete their own system, that Latinos still, when they do complete, they become entrepreneurs. They become contributors to the community. They enter the public service, their teeth. There are teachers, there are nurses, there are essential workers. They're the leaders of the day. And we do see still there's benefits when you do complete a degree. And if you somehow make it through that really intense mountain or bridge across, once you make it across, there are benefits to our community, which is why we still believe and why our community believes and still values higher education.

Shamil Rodriguez (26:05): Yeah. So that was a, an update from, or excuse me, not an update, but that was a portion of episode 29, like Daphne had mentioned before, that was Amanda Martinez, speaking on Latinos in higher education. I thought it was interesting that she, and this period and this section, or a segment of the episode where she was really talking about how there has been a decrease and enrollment for other things across the board, especially due to COVID or at least the timing has worked out that it's happened after COVID. There are plenty of reasons to think that that might be the case. But then also correlating the idea that the federal government and state governments move more towards a debt financing model for paying for school. So, Daphne, what do you think about, about that change or at least what Amanda highlighted here in this segment of episode 20,

Daphné Vanessa (26:55): I liked that that was a different idea that was sort of brought to the table because not a lot of people are talking about it and the first step is awareness, right. So she definitely checked off awareness. Now that the question is, well, what's her next step going to be? And not her specifically, but like,

Shamil Rodriguez (27:15): You know,

Daphné Vanessa (27:17): It's not just her for Amanda. Thank you, Amanda. Now we're holding you to this. No. But well, you know what, when he goes to his next larger steps and it just brings to light a lot of these policy conversations, what's the tangible next step. I just I'm super interested in the tangible

Shamil Rodriguez (27:37): Hmm, good question. Good question. All right. So you ready for the next segment?

Daphné Vanessa (27:43): Let's do it. Okay.

Shamil Rodriguez (27:45): All right. So next we're going to play a piece of Jeannette Martinez his episode on solutions for student loans from the Latino community. All right. So give me one second. Let's pull that up.

Speaker 6 (27:59): And for me affordability was one of the places that we saw is a good place to start in helping Latino students succeed in higher education, given that they currently adjust their attendance patterns to fit into a financial aid system that isn't necessarily built for them. So we know a lot of Latinos might be hesitant to take out loans given that they, that there are high higher default rates for Latinos and for their white peers. And even with the degree, they're still lower earning lower earning fewer wages than their white peers as well. So when it makes sense that you would feel like, what is this, why would I put in this investment if it's not actually going to pay off for me? So instead we see that Latino students attend part-time on, we'll go to a community college and we'll work as a way to cover their costs as well.

Speaker 6 (28:53): So if we can provide more financing upfront especially from like grant programs for this, this low income community, mostly low income community that can really play a big part. But once we get students in the door we also focus on how can we support those institutions that are enrolling the vast majority of students. So we look and study closely or accidental studies, institutional capacity and Hispanic serving institutions pretty closely because these institutions enroll 67% of all Latinos in higher education and undergraduate education. Yeah. And so those are those institutions who had at least 25% undergraduate full-time equivalent, Hispanic enrollment. And it's, I think this area was 569 and eight, a Hispanic serving institutions. So that represents like less than a fifth of all nonprofit institutions of higher education. But as I said in brawl 67% of all Latino students in undergraduate education. So how can we best support those institutions that are enrolling the disproportionate amount of Latino students and do often tend to be state state funded community colleges. So when like COVID hit, it was a big, you know, how are these institutions going to fair and you state budgets pieces like that. And then how does that then trickle down to students and impact students as well? So so let me just kind of at a high level piece of kind of where we looked at, definitely you wanna jump in here.

Daphné Vanessa (30:30): Yeah. So I'd love to share Jeanette with the audience, what the difference is between a serving institution and a designated minority college and university, because I, I think it would be helpful for people to understand the scope and maybe history of Hispanic serving institutions versus HBC use, for example, historically black colleges and universities or tribal colleges and universities.

Speaker 6 (30:57): Yeah, that's a great question. Definitely. So as you mentioned, HBC is and TCU is the tribal tribal colleges are, are, were created with a mission to serve, to specifically serve those communities and were created with that purpose versus HSIs are purely predicated on enrollment. So they were first federally funded in 1995 and came about thanks to institutions in places like Texas, California, New Mexico, who kinda, who recognize, you know, we're enrolling a lot of Latino students but we're under how can we get the federal government to recognize this and provide some more support. But the number of Hispanic serving institutions continues to grow every year. It's almost doubled in the time as we see the Latino population grow. Exactly,

Daphné Vanessa (31:53): Exactly. And as the Latino population is, is set to become, you know, the largest population in the United States, how do you think that's going to change some of the policies

Speaker 6 (32:05): Well already, and I can even say, just even in the past few years that I've been working in higher education, there's just so much more attention to Hispanic serving institutions. But I think that there's still a lot of like trying to equate it with, it's why I'm so glad that you asked the question. A lot of just kind of assuming that intercise function similarly to the way HBC use are like an institution becomes an HSI because they are focused on serving their Latino students, but that's not always necessarily the point. And as you know, the number of HSI has grow the federal funding for it, hasn't kept up at the same pace. How do we start to think about, okay. I guess asking or expecting more from, from HSI is to actually really focus on that, on that serving piece of it. And what are you actually doing to support your Latino students to make sure that they are successful at your institution and really kind of, yeah, really pushing that forward beyond just did you enroll students check.

Daphné Vanessa (33:06): Thank you. That's super helpful.

Shamil Rodriguez (33:09): So that was actually pretty interesting because I think the perspective that Jeannette Martinez brings in episode 31 of solutions for student loans, from the Latino perspective about it feels like the background of HSIs, right? I'm baffled, I'm glad you really brought up some of those questions because just because there's a greater population and not majority, but the threshold that's required to be considered an HSI doesn't necessarily mean that you're you're necessarily, you know, helping that specific community in a way that ensures that students are successfully completing the programs, right. Especially when we're considering what Amanda was saying about students, not finishing their degrees, they may be enrolling, but they're not finishing. So how are we holding HSIs accountable to make sure that the student populations that they're serving are actually completing their degrees after they enroll, right? Because these schools are then going to have access to different funding because they're an HSI. So those are, those are some of the thoughts that came to mind there from that segment of episode 31 with Jeannette Martinez, what did you think Daphne

Daphné Vanessa (34:21): Idea that the financial aid system was not built for Latinos? I would have loved to go in a little bit deeper on that. What do you think that means Chanel?

Shamil Rodriguez (34:32): It really reflects that policymakers need to think about the difference communities that are being served, right? So that's, that's what I'm thinking is that there's like a lag or a gap in the way that the population is shifting, but then the financial aid system is also shifting, but away from providing grants and providing more student loans, or at least that's how it was over the last let's say decade. But I'm hopeful that under the bottom administration and with, especially with some of the proposals that have been coming out, I want to say last three to six months that we're going to see a shift back towards providing more funding or affordable education opportunities at different levels. So that there's equity in education. What do you think Daphne,

Daphné Vanessa (35:26): All of that equity and education is exactly the goal, right? And, and I appreciate, but you brought up that changing landscape and that's a big factor in where we are today. So as we've mentioned on a few of these episodes, the ever-growing Latino population, Latin next population, apologies that is going to play a huge role, right? Because is it still an MSI if the majority of the population is Latino, Latina, Latin next, even if that population has been historically marginalized. So there are a lot of interesting questions that we're going to have to come up with answers to and solutions to, to seeing, well, what is equity and how can we achieve that given the historical framework.

Shamil Rodriguez (36:23): Great. I think that's great. So let's go into the last clip that we're going to play here for everyone. And this comes from episode 21 with Dr. Katherine Weedle on the changing narrative of student borrowers of color. And I think that it was such a great report that her and her team came up with at the Lumina foundation that we really wanted to highlight the section of the podcast episode that discussed the Latinex community and some of the narrative that comes around being a student loan borrower in that community. So without further ado, let's go right into that segment. Let's do it.

Speaker 7 (37:03): We hear a, quite a bit about how Latino borrowers tend to be more debt averse. And sometimes that's framed in while, you know, you don't want them to take as much debt. That's a good thing, and everyone should be that way. And I think that's a little simplified. It doesn't get into what are the considerations for Latino families and is there an opportunity to help support people in taking out that in the short term and what that means for completion and really for native student borrowers? I think there's a huge misunderstanding that we've come to learn that the idea that native students go to college for free is quite damaging. And if state level policy makers, if board of trustees and port of Regents members are believing those things to be true, then that's going to come out in the policies that they support or don't support and how they can be advocates for students in affordability.

Daphné Vanessa (38:08): That makes a lot of sense. So it is demographic specific solutions for the country instead of overarching policy, which makes a lot of sense. Right,

Speaker 7 (38:19): Right. And just to kind of get ahead of where I think some policy and legal walks get a little weary when folks talk about anti-racist policies or race conscious policies, we definitely have to think about what are the legal limitations. I don't think folks are talking about quota systems because we know that's illegal. However, there are ways that we can help all peers understand the reality of how race impacts different communities and different folks in a way that doesn't trigger zero sum thinking, but really can increase empathy and that empathy can help us finding solutions.

Daphné Vanessa (39:09): That's huge. That's really what the country needs generally to get closer to unification is a paradigm shift that, that you guys are proposing. Right. Right. That's amazing. So how have your research and findings and work of the working group thus far, how does that compare with the solutions that were proposed by the current administration, specifically those regarding MSI minority service institutions?

Speaker 7 (39:36): Right. So I want to be thoughtful here and say that Lumina wouldn't necessarily weigh into a specific bill or proposal. Well, what we can say is that we support any supports to minority serving institutions and other sectors that support students of color in the low income students, community colleges, public regionals, there are plenty of small privates that have low endowments that are support still continuing to support high numbers of Pell eligible students. These are the economic engines of the social mobility engines of higher education. And it's kind of not fair because when you read larger stories or see stories on the news, you hear about the public flagships, or you hear about Ivy leagues and that's just not where students are. And then there's another opportunity to stretch the imagination for the general public, because what is really important about this economic crisis right now, and paying attention to the unemployment and the jobless numbers.

Speaker 7 (40:53): We see that there are compounding issues happening for working class or lower income families. And when you compound race and gender onto those things and looking forward, and knowing that by 20 25, 60, 60 5% of jobs available will require some type of post-secondary credential. We have to be honest about what are the supports and needs to bring all of us together, bring all of us along. There were issues in affordability before the pandemic. And I know this tends to be heard in multiple social issues, but the pandemic has laid to bare the systemic problems that are impacting people's lives because people don't live single issue or single policy lives are Paul's the proposals can't be. So in one place or sector that is not useful or helpful. So in the report, I'll say that we kind of we put forward five recommendations to help shift the conversation and to help thinking about policy and those proposals that are available out there.

Shamil Rodriguez (42:11): I think that was a really good deep dive into some of the solutions that are out there. One that are supported by Lumina foundation. And this is episode 21 with Catherine wheedle on the report of borrowers of color. But the part that I keep thinking about here based on listening to that clip again, is that what they did is they did a great job of highlighting one, the different stories from different communities, but more importantly, the Lumina foundation is supporting something that I think is really important, that affordability and programs that allow for students of color and the Latinas community to access education without the burden of taking out student loans is a huge, huge economic let's call it. I don't want to say stimulus, but it's just really that, that way. And she called the economic engine. I really think it's very important to highlight that because if you allow for there to be less of a barrier to entry or a Sydney barrier of entry into higher education for students of color, generally that I think what you're doing is you're allowing for equity and education to exist, therefore creating economic prosperity sooner rather than later for for the Latinas community.

Shamil Rodriguez (43:32): Definitely. What do you think, is that what you, what, what you caught from that, that segment, or what did you think about that segment from episode 21? The interview with Catherine Weedle.

Daphné Vanessa (43:41): I mean, Dr. Katherine wheedle is just an amazing guest and I really hope we can have her back on one day, but she really outlined that report and how those disparities really should and, and can affect policy and why we should be cognizant of that. So I really thought that that report, which we will link in the show notes, provided some clarity on stereotypes for different communities of color as borrowers and what that could mean as a policy implication. And so for Latinos specifically, you know, not, not borrowing money or not spending too much, that stereotype is repeated a lot in the communities and I'll call them parallel communities as well. And that's hurtful, right? Because it makes it seem like potentially it's not needed, but this education that could be a source of opportunity for various Latino borrowers to move out of whatever socioeconomic group you're in now and into another one. So I think there's a lot of opportunity when debt is used appropriately, but we have to stop sort of limiting people by making assumptions about them. So I think it was very enlightening and I loved speaking with Dr. Katherine Weedo.

Shamil Rodriguez (45:14): I agree. I agree. So thank you to all the guests that joined the show so far. We can't wait to continue to bring on more exciting guests as we continue to grow our audience and share the messages of so many great people out there like Dr. Katherine Weedo Illumina foundation, Jeannette Martinez, and Amanda Martinez. We have so many great guests lined up, but especially Jerry,

Daphné Vanessa (45:42): We did just launch his episode, but we want to give a shout out to Gary as well. You know,

Shamil Rodriguez (45:48): Hey,

Daphné Vanessa (45:50): Not forget about Jorge, even though he did not have a two-part series,

Shamil Rodriguez (45:55): But no, but but let's say I was trying to get to the point that especially today you know, celebrating the beginning of happy Latinex heritage month. And so I would recommend to you, if you're listening to this podcast episode today, and you made it this far in the episode to speak to someone that you know, is Latino, Latina or Latinex, and ask them a question about their heritage, their culture, just try to learn a little bit more about it or Google search it, right? Like say, there's a country you visited before. Maybe you've gone to Mexico during spring break, but you don't really know much about it besides that it's a spring big destination you know, learn a little bit more, why not open your mind to something new? You may be, you may be grateful for it. It may bring a, an appreciation for the culture that you may not, you may not have had before you did that search. So please do that, celebrate the culture, celebrate the diversity of the culture within itself, right. And continue to listen to the podcast, share with a friend subscribe comment on this podcast. And we look forward to interacting with you, whether it's on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, or LinkedIn, wherever you listen to your podcasts, we're grateful for you to be here. And we look forward to continuing to make more episodes that you guys find interesting Daphne, anything before we go

Daphné Vanessa (47:23): Rate, review and subscribe to the student loan podcast. Thanks so much

Shamil Rodriguez (47:28): More information on today's podcast episode. Visit the student loan podcast.com/episode 46. That's the student loan podcast.com forward slash episode 46.

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